The Black Rose Logs

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Date: Sat, 13 Oct 90 08:16:49 PDT
From: Unicorn Gold <>
To:,,,, fuzzy@CS.CMU.EDU,,,,

* NOTE: This log has been edited ONLY to remove inconsequential items:
*   people not connected with the matter
*   private messages
*   my commands

/log BR
Arion says "We kill randomly, but if people get really upset or don't fight
back we leave them alone......"

Arion says "We only continue to kill the assholes"
Ack says "we give people the same amount of time to kill us as it is for us to
kill them"
Ack says "if they are slow..."
Arion says "we have lousey computers, anyone can out draw us..."
Ack says "BUT we never use auto-kill"
Arion says "and i'm a lousey typist"
Ack says "no excitement there"

Lynx mm-hmms. Thrill-seekers, in a way, gunfighters seeing who can get to the
"kill * = 100" first?...
Arion says "yes!"
Ack wonders how Lynx ever got to be WIZ the way he is typing SO slow...

Lynx suggests you do it in a slightly different way...
Ack says "OH?"

Ack perks an ear.
You say "ASK people if they want to play your game.. Then set up some kind of
arena or something..."

You say "Try this.. You might like it."

Arion says "that's no fun!"
Ack says "the fun is in the random hits"

You say "Create a Photon-style sort of arena. Then you have people wandering
around. They encounter each others. Then you try to kill them before they kill
you, no macros allowed."
Arion says "that would not make us the criminals we are"
Ack says "what is random about that set-up?"

Lynx hmms.. So you're saying you want to randomly kill people?
Ack says "yes.....because"
Arion says "yes! randomly but with the same chances of dying!"
Ack says "we want to be the few...the proud...the outlaws!"
Arion says "right!"

Lynx should note you are probably despised by a great many people, which is
hardly helpful.
Ack says "that is the best part about it!!!"
Arion says "that's the way we like it!"

Arion says "we have friends too though!"
Lynx mm-hmms. Well, we Tinkers are here to help these great many people...
Ack says "in the affairs of running the game...not"

Lynx figures if a few people do things that annoy many people, then it makes
more sense to stop those few people.
Arion says "you have already helped them!! you built this place..and give them
Ack says "not be judge jury and executioner"

Lynx points out it would be NICE if we didn't have to do that...
Ack says "I thought wiz's job is to make sure the game is up and running ...not
be its government!"

Lynx and the other tinkers deal with complaints because it's the responsible
thing to do. People need help-- we can give them that help. And yes, in a sort
of way, we govern Islandia.
Arion says "I don't see why everything can't be left the way it was.,.tell
people it's not your job to be sheriff"
Arion says "I never got a vote"

Lynx notes cheerfully Islandia has never been a democracy.
Ack says "more like the opposite!"
Ack says "quite the contrary"
GiantGorg has arrived.
Arion says "You're the only Tinker that ever bothered us"

Lynx and the other tinkers can hardly run this against the opposition of many
people, of course.
GiantGorg steps east onto the disc and vanishes.
GiantGorg has left.
Arion says "yeah right"

Lynx is listening to you, is he not?
Ack appreciates this...of course
Arion says "but it's getting us won't help us"
Ack says "but no matter what we say....your decision is made"

Lynx points out it would be sort of silly for him to help a few people annoy
many people, wouldn't it?
Arion says "You could care less about our complaints"
Ack says "you aren't!!!!"
Arion says "we don't want your help! we want you to leave everything the way it
Ack says "in fact you shouldn't help ANY when it comes to how we interpret fun"

Lynx sighs. Obviously you've made up your own mind that whatever he does is
meant to annoy and pester you.
Ack says "well isn't the facts there?"
Arion says "why do you haveta change things!!"
Ack says "everywhere is HAVENed"

Lynx points out some people have ideas of fun that other people do not agree
with, and these people do not have to put up with it.
Ack says "if it is not'll be later"
Arion says "then let them stay in the havens that are usually there..t/d rooms,
the town square....there own homes..."

Lynx hmms. Well, sure, if you keep randomly killing people anywhere you can
reach, eventually it'll be.
Ack nods!

Lynx does not believe in cooping up all the people who dislike being killed in
a few small haven areas.
Ack says "so in fact we are doomed"
Arion says "but you wil coup us up"

Lynx would prefer it if you ask people whether or not they want to play your
game of who-kills-who-first before you kill them. Or something to that effect.

Lynx has made a valid suggestion, creating an arena for it.
Arion says "that is gay"
Ack says "you know Lynx....u wanted part of this orginization one time....I
wonder if you would have voted on our side then!?"

Lynx hmms?
Ack's moot doesn't matter anymore
Arion says "this mud usta be cool! wizards weren't assaulting you everytime you
did something....."
Arion spits.

Lynx hardly lurks in the shadows waiting for you to do something. He doesn't
have time to do that.
Ack has never seen Wizards interfere like so...until Islandia that is

Lynx shrugs. If you don't like it, shouldn't you play somewhere else?
Arion says "sure you have done that though..just now at this spot"

Lynx was complained to. He came. He wasn't waiting here or anything like that.
Ack ponders

Lynx can offer you some suggestions too if you like.
Arion says "What is the problem! I am complaining too!"
Ack ?
Arion says "what suggestions!"

Lynx just does not want many people annoying him because they've been killed.
Arion says "set yourself haven!"

Lynx gives you Anarchy!'s address. Some people like it. It's 4201
Ack says "But that's part of the game...true"

Lynx is here to deal with complaints, not to ignore them.

Lynx therefore has to solve the problem, not hope it goes away..
Arion says "you are ignoring mine!"

Lynx shrugs. Your problem. His problem is to stop people from complaining about
all the killers.
Ack notes this here is a complaint...but what's being done?....Zilch!

Arion says "then you are a biased wizard who only views the world tyhrough his
own narrowminded point of view"
Pumacougar has arrived.

Lynx shrugs. It's a fact of life. MUDs are shaped by their wizards.

Lynx figures if you don't like the wizards, you should go elsewhere.
Ack says "not really...only you"

You whisper "Want a log?" to Pumacougar.
Pumacougar whispers "Sure."

Lynx again tells you: Anarchy! is 4201

Arion says "We have never complained before,,,,,and now you ignore our
Ack ignores it...I prefer Islandia above all else
Pumacougar wonders what personal dislikes have to do with killing innocent

Lynx informs Pumacougar apparently it's some sort of thing in which they try to
type "kill * = 100" before the other person does.
Arion says "Pumacougar..we are talking to Lynx....not you"

Lynx notes Pumacougar's quite entitled to discuss.
Pumacougar telepaths: "That is nice, but I am free to listen and voice
Arion says "I'm sure if he complained you'd listen!!!"
Ack says "true....Is it really that bad to be killed PUMA?"
Arion says "yeah, what's the big deal!"

Lynx has two sets of complaints, Ack, Arion...

Pumacougar telepaths: "I try to be as openminded as I can, but there are some
things that that is difficult to do about."

You say "One, many people complain to me about Black Rose types killing them
when they're walking around."

You say "Two, you people complain about the HAVEN. Right?"
Arion says "yes"

Lynx nods. "Now obviously you people would prefer your complaints be answered
and theirs ignored."
Pumacougar telepaths: "It's only bad to be killed when you're trying to
accomplish something else and it interrupts you."
BlackJack has arrived.
BlackJack steps north onto the disc and vanishes.
BlackJack has left.
BlackJack has arrived.
Conty has arrived.
Conty steps west onto the disc and vanishes.
Conty has left.
BlackJack greets all.

Lynx purr'los to BlackJack.

Lynx 'gryns at BlackJack. The other side of the argument shows up.
Merakon has arrived.
Ack says "we only kill in public...what sort of people accomplishes things in

Lynx purr'los to Merakon.
Merakon says "'ello."

Pumacougar telepaths: "I've been killed before and not minded, but those were
times when I wasn't doing anything important anyway."
BlackJack says "Only in public? Maybe."
Merakon wonders what is going on.
Ack says "yes...I summoned him...wouldn't want the argument to be BIASED right
BlackJack wonders also.

Lynx wonders if Merakon knows that anytime someone complains about being killed
in a public room, that the room'll be HAVENed? (within reason, of course, and
excepting spurious complaints)
Pumacougar wishes Ack would try to be civil.
Ack is
Arion says "Like I already said you bonehead..if people bitch about dying we
usually stop killing's the people who insult us and challenenge
Merakon says "No I didn't. How long does the HAVEN last?"
Ack 's patience is slowly dimming tho
BlackJack didn't know that, Lynx. He wishes he did a while ago.

You say "Until it's not needed.. Probably at least a few days."
Merakon says "We only kill elitist scum."
Amelia says "Hello."
BlackJack says "REALLY, Arion?"

Lynx purr'los to Amelia.
Pumacougar wonders what the definition of "elitist scum" is.
Arion says "This fuckin' sucks..yes really BlackJack!"
BlackJack says "And who qualifies as 'elitist scum'? You've killed MANY a mew
Merakon says "People like Tarador who I try to have a reasonable conversation
with and they say " tinydork and gag me for no apparent reason."
Arion says "since no one will listen anyway what does it matter!"
Ack notes we don't want to fool them of any facades of the game
BlackJack says "You ONLY kill elitist scum? Most new users don't know HOW to
Merakon says "Just showing new users the kill command, that's all."
Arion says "I help new users all the time..I give them money ask Elessedil!"
BlackJack BONKs Merakon ludly.

Lynx nods to Arion.

Merakon says "OIF."
Pumacougar thinks that the reason people don't listen is that they perceive the
BR's as being TinyJerks. Maybe if the BR's tried to change their image, people
would listen more, and not jump to conclusions.
BlackJack says "Give them money, and then off them. What a help..."
BlackJack says "Change their image?"
Ack says "we can do that in one!"
Merakon says "Hey...Everyone has their own special gift..."
Arion says "why don't you listen...BlackBonehead!"

You say "But you prefer your image as outlaws, TinyJerks, people not to be
BlackJack BONKs Arion too.
Arion says "yes!"

Lynx sighs. "Arion, Ack, please try to be polite about your discussion?"
BlackJack thanks Lynx.
Ack notes that *he* does...
BlackJack says "No need for insults, Arion."
Pumacougar telepaths: "Why do you like that image, and then complain that no
one listens? It doesn't make sense to me."
Arion says "Why?? Nothing I say will make a difference, you already said that"
BlackJack says "Really? When did I say that?"
Ack says "who's complaining about that?"

Lynx is listening. Perhaps you haven't found the right argument to convince
Arion says "I'm talking about Lynx listening to me Pumacvougar"
Merakon is lost in this conversation...he'll let Arion speak...
Pumacougar telepaths: "Merakon did, Perhaps it doesn't bother you, Ack."

BlackJack says "Earlier Merakon claimed over 200 kills in one night. You can't
convince me that all of those were 'annoying elitist scum.'"
Ack notes that this is probably true

Ack says "200?"
Merakon says "Well I might have overexaggerated."
Ack smiles...then sighs

Lynx looks slightly bemused. "And what are elitist scum, anyway?"
BlackJack says "I've heard the Black Roses say they kill WHOMEVER, not just
Elitists. Ask Julia to quote Ander. She'll say "The Black Roses kill whoever
and whenever they want" or something like that."
Pumacougar doesn't see that as a thing to be proud of. Why do you see it as
Merakon says "I'm not Webster's dictionary."
Arion says "We just want things to stay the way they were..there are many
people here who like us who we don't kill"
BlackJack agrees with Puma.
BlackJack says "So you kill only those who like you, Arion?"
BlackJack says "Erp- whoops."
Merakon says "We can't be responsible for Ander's quotes."
BlackJack says "That was typed wrong. Sorry."
Pumacougar telepaths: "So, you kill people just because they don't like you?"

You say "And why not? Isn't he a member of your group?"
Merakon says "No."
Arion says "No you geek..we don't kill our friends!"
Merakon says "Liet hates me. But I will not kill him."
BlackJack says "Really, Arion. 'Geek.' NO need for insults."
Merakon says "Because he is reasonable."
Ack says "stay with the conversation BJ"
Pumacougar telepaths: "Reasonable? How? I'm afraid we've never met."
Merakon says "Not like Tarador and others who just start attacking us verbally
without provoke."
BlackJack says "Tell Arion to be reasonable, Ack."
Arion says "This is a complete waste of time..I feel like I'm trying to teach a
special-ed class"

You say "Perhaps he was killed by a number of you, Merakon?"
Merakon laughs,
BlackJack agrees with Lynx. When one is killed by a BR, one tends to dislike
all of them.
Ack says "sterotypical!"
BlackJack says "Reputation travels."
Merakon says "Perhaps. I admit, sometimes we get carried away a little with our
kills. But it's just a game anyway!"

Lynx does not, sadly to say, regard killing as just nothing.
Merakon says "We always stop when people tell us to."
BlackJack agrees with Lynx.

You say "Normally I feel if someone tries to kill me, he or she must be trying
to tell me something."
Pumacougar thinks that maybe that shouldn't happen, either, BlackJack. A group
shouldn't be judged by ine member.
BlackJack says "OK, then, all of you, STOP. Stop killing me."
Arion says "I'm trying to tell you something!"
Merakon says ""
Ack says "but u always ANNOY me BJ!!!"
BlackJack says "I'm not saying it's RIGHT, Puma. I'm saying it IS."
Ack says "and u want ...INSIST I kill u"

Arion says "fine BlackJack..we will if you don't insult and mock us"
Pumacougar notes that he has met a couple BR's who were very polite to him--and
he holds nothing against them.
BlackJack says "Merakon, you said you stop killing someone if they ask. I
Merakon says "right."
Merakon says "As long as you don't sick all your White Rose goons on me."
Ack says "so no more insults BJ?"
Ack says "and the rest of the WR's"
Arion says "the point is moot..with everthing havened what do you care!?!?"
BlackJack says "Wait wait wait. So you'll stop killing someone if they ask- and
never insult you. You, however, can insult them all you want?"
Merakon says "Twisting our words aren't you?"

Lynx hmms.
BlackJack says "I AM NOT a WHITE ROSE! PLEASE see my message in the East of the
Ack says "we never start such a thing!"
Merakon steps north onto the disc and vanishes.
Merakon has left.
Arion says "We never insult unless insulted first..usually...unless the person
does something dumb"
Conty has arrived.

BlackJack says "'Usually.' 'Dumb.' Weighted words."

You say "Let me try interpreting that, Arion.."
GiantGorg steps east onto the disc and vanishes.
GiantGorg has left.
Arion says "go ahead"

You say "If you were treated reasonably, you wouldn't kill, and wouldn't start
insulting that person, trying to provoke him or her?"
BlackJack says "Yes. True, Arion?"
Arion says "that is exactly correct Lynx"

Lynx hmms.
Ack says "very good Lynx..."

You say "Has it occured to you killing someone on first sight isn't going to
promote this?"
BlackJack says "Hmm. One of my friends- Ryozenzuzex... logged on for the first
time. He was wandering- insulted NOT one BR- had met NOT one BR.. and Ack
killed him."
Merakon has arrived.
BlackJack says "Explain that."
Merakon says "Oops. I thought you were their leader!"

Lynx repurr'los to Merakon.
BlackJack says "I'm NOT."
Conty says "Same happened to me!"

Lynx 'gryns. See what happens when you don't check?
Merakon says "Who is?"
Pumacougar notes that it is normally the reputation of the BR's that gets them
insulted. Maybe if the BR's weren't so conspicuous, their reputation wouldn't
be so bad.

Arion says "Like I said..we do kill randomly..but we leave alone the people who
get upset"
Lynx has no idea, Merakon.

You say "If you find out, let me know, 'kay?"
Merakon says "Without black, what would white be?"
BlackJack says "Black Roses do NOT just kill people who annoy them."
Pumacougar notes that a friend of his, Mishael, was killed by Ack while he was
BlackJack says "WAIT. Arion. First you say you kill only those who insult you.
THEN you say OH, yes, well, we DO kill randomly."
Merakon says "I've already given you that point. I agree. We get carried away
sometimes. We're only human."
Ack was fed after midnight that night...he was in a frenzy...I'll admit I go
overboard at times...I'm that is

Lynx hmms.
BlackJack says "Contradiction."
Merakon says "But WE REALLY DO STOP when people ask us."

Lynx isn't sure temporary insanity is really a very good defense.
BlackJack says "Perhaps, Merakon, you shouldn't START."
Merakon thinks killing is fun... sometimes people fight back and we have fun.
Arion says "That is not what I said...I said we kill randomly..if someone tells
us to stop we do..but if that same person insults us we will still slay them"
BlackJack says "I'v no problem with kill. It has its usefullness. The RANDOM
deaths are what I object to!"

You say "Then shouldn't you get together with people who would like to kill
Arion says "we did The Black Roses!!"
Merakon says "Don't get me wrong. I don't just play this game to kill."
Pumacougar telepaths: "Killing may be fun--for some. I concede that point. But
why drag in people who don't think it's fun?"
BlackJack agrees with Lynx. Find the other violents and killfest yourselves.
Leave the rest alone.

Lynx has already suggested an arena.

Arion says "geek geek geek"
BlackJack grins. An arena is a good idea. Move all killfests THERE.

Lynx hears an insult?
Arion says "yes"
Conty says "What arena?"
BlackJack says "Arion, please. Act mature."

Lynx hmms at Arion. So you're saying you don't want to listen to him, huh?
Ack says "we've heard of u'r ideas Lynx"

Lynx was bringing it up again for the people who hadn't heard his suggestion to
Ack says "they don't meet our needs...."
BlackJack says "I'D not heard it, Ack."
Arion spits.
Merakon says maturity is a thing Arion does not have in abundance. Don't push
Pumacougar telepaths: "And you're steretyping *all* of his ideas based on a
BlackJack says "YOUR needs? We don't cater to you. The wizards cater to the
common good!"
Merakon says "Fine."
Ack says "did I asked to be catered?"
BlackJack grins at Merakon. He's discovering this about Arion.
Merakon says "If you give us a computer, we'll start our own mud and leave this
one alone..."
Merakon smiles.

Ack says "no...but Lynx just offered to cater me and I don't like the service"
Lynx offers to @wall to all that if they tell you that they don't want to be
killed, you won't kill them.
BlackJack says "Earlier you said you HAD found a group to go kill with- the
BRs. What Lynx meant was AMONGST yourselves. Do you kill each other??"
Arion says "Well, I guess I'll go insult some people in the town square..steal
there stuff and lock annoyiny stuff on their property..since it seems like a
waste of time here."

Lynx quotes for you again: Anarchy!, where you can kill all you like, and the
wizards won't get on your back -- 4201
Arion steps north onto the disc and vanishes.
Arion has left.
Merakon says "We don't kill each other...yet."
BlackJack says "No, Lynx. You have to promise to be eternally NICE to them,
too. If they provoke you, you can't provoke back."
BlackJack says "Yes, Lynx. Go to Anarchy, you all."
BlackJack says "Not you, Lynx. Stay here."
Ack looks annoyed and confused...

Lynx shrugs. If you renege on your promise, they'll start complaining again,
and then you'll have a REAL problem: site lockout.

Merakon thinks this is feeble... I don't have a problem...

BlackJack grins at that prospect, Lynx.
Pumacougar thinks it's people like Arion who cause BR's to be universally
shunned. Tact is a key word here, and an area in which Arion is sadly lacking.
Merakon says "What promise?"
BlackJack agrees with Puma. Well said.

You say "That you won't kill people who object."
BlackJack whispers "Yep. Way cool."
Merakon says "It's going to be hard to keep track..."

You say "If that's not what you're going to do, then say just what!.."
BlackJack says "Arion said so.. but you have to promise to be NICE, Lynx. To
NEVER make them MAD."
Pumacougar goes back: not universally. But by a good number of people. There
are those who will tolerate the BR's to varying degrees.

Lynx is sure most people wouldn't go with that of course..
BlackJack says "If they inslut you, you can't return it- that's angering them.
Then they can kill you."
Merakon says "That's not don't have to be nice to me...I enjoy a
good reasonable battle of words..."
Ack says "like now?"
Ack smiles

You say "So will you hold to this then? That if they object, then you won't
kill them? Period?"
BlackJack says "Arion said you have to promise not to insult you, or you'll
kill again."
Merakon says "It's just geeks like Enforcer who keep going : Enforcer punts
Merakon. over and over and over and ..."
Ack says "this discussion has not been weighed with the rest of the BR's"

Lynx shrugs. "If it's excessive, then just as regular users..."
BlackJack says "You've killed people who AREN"T geeks."
Merakon says "I won't promise anything because people will twist the words..."
BlackJack says "Nor has it been weighted with the rest of those who oppose you,

Lynx reminds you that a @wall will go to all the users of Islandia who are
currently on.
BlackJack whispers "See? They won't commit.... they want to still have their
BlackJack smirks.
Merakon says "I'll just say this: I won't kill people who object to my doing
so, unless they are being sarcastic about their objection."
Pumacougar thinks people like Enforcer aren't the nicest in the world, by any
Ack says "true...tho the rest of the BR's should hear about this before we
promise anything..."

Lynx shrugs. "The current policy of HAVENing will stay until we can come up
with a better solution, hmm?"
BlackJack says "OK. I'm not sarcastic. KILL me NOT."
BlackJack says "So there."
Merakon says "First of all, you shouldn't treat the BRs as a group... we each
have our own value systems."
BlackJack says "Hello."
BlackJack says "Acknowledge."
Merakon laughs. "No, that didn't sound sarcastic. with all those CAPITALS!
BlackJack says "I request no KILLS on me."
Ack smirks
BlackJack says "fine merakon. i request you not to kill me."
Merakon turns off his BlackJack-hunt button.
Merakon laughs. good one
BlackJack says "you too, ack."

Lynx has made several suggestions now. Perhaps you people ought to come up with
some ideas.
Conty says "I'm against getting killed. I don't want to be killed by you.
Ack says "if you haven't notice ..each member of the BR's have their 'style' of
fun...look at me for example"
Pumacougar will run around with an item reading "Kill_ok" or "Not_Kill_ok", if
it will help any...
Merakon says "Sure."

BlackJack grins at Puma.
Merakon says "Maybe everyone should have one?"

You say "So you say, Ack, that even if someone requests not to be killed, you
might still kill that person?"
BlackJack believes anyone without a kill_Ok should be not_kill_ok.
Merakon says "feeble."
BlackJack thinks not_kill_ok should be the default.
Ack says "that would prove to be an interesting concept ...but how will I
satisfy my customers?"

You say "Set up a shop."
BlackJack BONKs Ack.

Lynx 'gryns.
Merakon says "Remember, I PROMISED nothing. If people start twisting our words
I will be very upset."
Ack says "was that really necessary!"
BlackJack says "Hmmm."
BlackJack grins.

You say "But of course, if you violate the spirit.."
BlackJack grins again.

You say "Well, shall I @wall to everyone that if they don't want to be killed,
they should tell you so?"
Ack says "I can promise not to annoy but I also have a job"
Ack says "what is @wall"
BlackJack says "Then change profession."

You say "That's something that'll tell EVERYONE my message."

You say "Everyone logged in will hear it."
Ack says "change your name and attitude....can u?"
BlackJack says "Lynx- no good. People will 'twist their words.'"
BlackJack BONKs Ack again.
Merakon says "Sure. But make sure you add something about how fun it is to be
hunted by Black Roses too. Don't wall something that makes us sound like

Lynx shrugs. "I might enjoy seeing people be deluged by 20 or 30 page
BlackJack says "Oh, SUCH fun, Merakon. SO much fun to be hunted."
BlackJack says "NOT."
Merakon says "To each his own."

Lynx suggests this. "If you want to miss out on the fun of being hunted by the
Black Roses, page them and say so."
BlackJack looks umimpressed.
BlackJack grins.
Merakon says "fine."
BlackJack grins at Lynx's idea. Neat.
Ack will do with that

Lynx nods. "I will hold you to this though.. And investigate complaints."

You say "We'll see how things go."

BlackJack says "Merakon, why are you not aqccepting pages?"
You say "Ready?"
Ack will definitely suit me!!!
BlackJack says "WAIT."

Lynx ahas.
Pumacougar thinks maybe BlackJack could afford to hold back on the BONKing a
BlackJack says "Merakon?"

Lynx believes that's against the spirit of the argument.
BlackJack grins. Sorry, Puma.
Merakon says "oops...wait..."

You say "Merakon, have you got an E-mail address?"
Merakon says "Yes. Why?"

Lynx offers to put it in.

You say "Then if they can't reach you, they can send you E-mail..."
Merakon says "I don't have enough disk space. Have them give it to Julia."
BlackJack says "Lynx- leave a blurb in the kiosk, too."

Lynx nods...
BlackJack says "For those who aren't on."
Pumacougar nods. Julia is a good idea, Merakon.

BlackJack says "And perhaps re@wall every so often for those not already on."

Ack nods
Lynx sees Merakon is no longer set HAVEN.

You say "Which of the BRs do you want to be listed?"
Merakon says "I was only set on haven because of geeks bombing me..."

You say "(as people to be contacted, that is)"
Merakon says "Which I never do."
Merakon says "I can only vouch for myself...I told you, don't group us together
like that."
Merakon says "sorry"

Lynx hmms.
BlackJack cackles.

You say "So they have to contact each member independently?..."
Merakon says "This is not my idea..."
Ack has a pen and paper ready for all those ready to page *him*
Merakon has the same.
BlackJack says "But they won't reveal their membership list, Lynx."
Ack says "how am I suppose to know?"
Merakon says "sure we will"
BlackJack says "You wouldnt' before."

Lynx will list Ack and Merakon for now. Arion's not here, though, so he doesn't
know if Arion's agreed.
Merakon says "You never asked me."
Ack says "if someone pages Merakon and not me?"
BlackJack says "Arion said the BRs don't giv it out."

Lynx suggests you two stick here.
Pumacougar telepaths here and now: "I don't mind getting killed if I'm set
Ack says "not to you BJ"

Lynx figures then you can relay pages and people's names.
Merakon says "Ok, PumaCougar."
BlackJack says "Arion said you don't give it out, PERIOD."
Merakon says "Hey, since I'm being nice, can you unbot The_Real_Merakon"

Lynx nods.
Merakon says "And give him 10000 pennies..."

You give 10000 pennies to The_Real_Merakon.
BlackJack whispers "So you DID bot them. You devil... ;^)"
Ack says "and me?"

Lynx does so.

You whisper "Nope, didn't set the 'bot bits." to BlackJack.

Lynx hmms?
BlackJack says "And me?" and grins. Sorry...
Ack says "and my 1,000,000 + pennies?"
Merakon laughs.

BlackJack thinks Ack deserves to be BONKed for the penny comment.

Lynx uh huhs. BONK away.
Ack says "tis true!"
BlackJack BONKS ack
Ack says "u did do it...don't lie Lynx!"

Lynx gave you -1000000, someone gave you 1000000, it balances out fine.
Pumacougar wonders where Ack *got* all those!

Ack says "....yeah...right"

Ack says "I could have doubled that"

Lynx doubts it.
Ack says "perhaps...."

The_Real_Merakon has arrived.
BlackJack whispers "Then who did, then?"

Lynx shrugs. "Ready to begin? Got your papers and pencil ready?"
The_Real_Merakon says "FREE! FREE!!"

You whisper "No idea." to BlackJack.
BlackJack whispers "Hmm."
Merakon says "Wait..."
Ack says "no pennies huh?"

You say "Which character do you want to be paged as, Merakon?"
Merakon says "one Merakon but I'm switching now."

Lynx nods to Ack, right.
BlackJack whispers "Can wizards read messages sent trough Julia? Is Julia
Ack says "Crooked!!!"

You whisper "Julia's pretty secure." to BlackJack.

Merakon2 goes home.
Merakon2 has left.
Pumacougar will give Ack a few pennies, if he wants.
Merakon says "Ok."
BlackJack whispers "that didn't answer my question.. when is she NOT secure?"
Ack will remember this!!!
Cybersaur pages: WHAT!?!
Ack says "no....Lynx only..."

You whisper "When people name-change to new characters and then back, and when
people page messages to those people." to BlackJack.

You whisper "Then if someone else changes into that name..." to BlackJack.
Pumacougar shrugs. He offered...
Ack says "Lynx has not redeemed to me to be a wiz"

Lynx doesn't HAVE to.
Ack says "I know..."
BlackJack whispers "gotcha. So if I stay me, even wizards don't know what Julia

Lynx sighs. This is it. Final decision.
You say "Set?"

You whisper "Right." to BlackJack.
BlackJack says "Set."
Merakon is ready,
Ack says "sigh....go"
BlackJack whispers "Thanx."
BlackJack waits.

BlackJack tenses.
Arion has arrived.
OliverJones has arrived.
Arion spits.
OliverJones says "Hello, all."

Lynx shouts "Public Service Announcement: if you would like to miss out on the
fun of being hunted by the Black Roses, then page Merakon and Ack (both), or
send them messages through Julia, and the other Black Rose members. Notices
will be posted in the Kiosk shortly."
Merakon says "Hi."
BlackJack wipes up Arion's public messes.
BlackJack says "Hello, OJ."
Ack acknowledges you...
Pumacougar greets Arion cheerily.
Julia pages: Could you rephrase that, Lynx?

Lynx purr'los to OliverJones.

BlackJack ahhs.
Arion says "Hi"

Lynx sees... 77 users on. This should be interesting.
Tarador pages: Huh? If we don't want to be killed, then we just tell them??
Pumacougar whispers ""

Arion says "I'm setting myself haven"
Tor pages: JUST got hunted by one. PLEASE say that there's a solution ahead...
Clot pages: What is going on?

page tor = Try talking to 'em and see.
page clot = Hmm, new user?

OliverJones wonders if he's too late then.
Your message has been sent.

Kallen pages: What's this black rose hunting thing?
Lynx gets some pages too. Hmm, OJ?
Clot pages: relatively!
Kallen pages: Are they trying to rack up a body count or something?

page kallen = Has to do with randomly getting killed in public areas.
Your message has been sent.

Carson_D_Carson pages: If I'm killed on my own property, I will hunt them down
and turn them into little toads.

Arion says "Ahhhh....I don't hear a thing.....I didn't agree to this"

page carson_D_Carson = *'gryn*
Your message has been sent.

Pumacougar whispers "Good negotiating. "

Lynx shrugs. Arion can be left out of it then.

Lynx figures people will hunt him down and lynch him, but that's his problem.
OliverJones came here to perhaps present some of the points which the Black
Roses have, since maybe his input would be accepted more....
BlackJack lynches Arion.

Lynx hmms? Sure, OJ.
Arion says "Good..I can Kill whoever I want!!!"
Merakon has 5 pages names so far. Lynx, are you on the No_kill list. :-)
Pumacougar scowls at BlackJack.
BlackJack is just kidding, Puma. Sheesh...

Lynx wonders when the last time Merakon tried killing a tinker was...
Pumacougar lightens up.

Lynx scritches Pumacougar's ears.
BlackJack cackles at Lynx. "Agreed."
Pumacougar points to Merakon's smilie.
Arion says "when will the havens be gone??"

OliverJones wonders if the arrangement is that the Black Roses can't kill
people who say they don't want to be killed?
Lynx 'gryns at Merakon. But sure, if you want to put him on, fine.

You say "Within reason, OJ..."
Ack says "Mercy!!!"
BlackJack says "No, OJ. Only Merakon and Ack have agreed."
Ack says "this is a fiasco"
Pumacougar holds in a snicker.

Lynx wonders what's the matter, Ack?
BlackJack grins.
Ack says "oh....nothing...."
BlackJack grins widely.

Lynx mm-hmms.
Ack says "you would..."
OliverJones says "How do you know if they are killing someone to recover a
puzzle? What about new users?"
BlackJack says "Not terribly sporting, Arion."
OliverJones says "Well, anyways."
Arion says "I won't least with people after me things will be back to

Lynx investigates complaints, OJ.
BlackJack says "New users are fair game, I fear, OJ."
Carson_D_Carson pages: Are the Roses being annoying?

Lynx can put a notice in #0 if you like.

page carson_D_Carson = Well, we'll see if we can change that.
Your message has been sent.

Lynx purr'los to Morgy.
BlackJack says "That'd be sweet, Lynx. SWEET."

Pumacougar notes that there will be a notice in the users can find
out there.
Ack says "yes...I like that too"

Conty suddenly feels very nervous. "What do you mean fair game, BJ?"

Carson_D_Carson pages: I have the feeling that you aren't particularly
overjoyed with them.
BlackJack says "Put that wall comment in the kiosk and #0, and things'll be

page carson_D_Carson = Pretty good analysis.
Your message has been sent.

Pumacougar telepaths: "Fair game as in: they don't know of the arrangement
BlackJack says "Not fair game for ME. I've killed but once. The BRs, I mean."

page carson_D_Carson = That @wall is the result of some discussion with the
BRs though.
Your message has been sent.

Arion says "I agreed to nothing...remember that...:)"
Arion steps north onto the disc and vanishes.
Arion has left.
OliverJones nods. "Ok, what I see here is a problem that the Black Roses have a
major PR problem to overcome. They are simply not liked, but this doesn't mean
that some of their complaints aren't valid. By further expanding the "evil
aura" surrounding the roses, they are being set up to never be able to

Carson_D_Carson pages: @wall? what all?
page carson_D_Carson = That shout...
Your message has been sent.

Conty says "Ah. It's just that Arion killed me the very first time I came to
Carson_D_Carson pages: I know a few of them have some sense.
Merakon wonders if PumaCougar will ever be Kill_OK...
Pumacougar telepaths: "OliverJones, this is an attempt to clear up some of that
negative rep, the way I see it."

page carson_D_Carson = Mm-hmm.
Your message has been sent.

Pumacougar will, Merakon. Sometimes.

Lynx points out he was quite startled to hear that the Black Roses (in general)
weren't TOTAL random killers...
Ack says "ahhh....out of 77 users...not many have paged fun fun"

Lynx figures this is a thing most people should know then.
Merakon says "good."
Pumacougar smiles at Merakon.
BlackJack adds they're not TOTAL random killers. They hunt AND kill at random.
OliverJones says "Certainly the black roses have done stupid things as
individuals. But random killings are not the trademarks of all of them, I
think. If they engage in killing with others who wish it, they are being
unjustily punished."
Merakon says "And plunder too. Don't forget- we're good thieves!"
BlackJack isn't TRYING to argue. He wants to clarify...
Pumacougar notes that tact is a 2-way street....
BlackJack says "Puma- see above."

Lynx points out to OJ people who wish it don't complain.
Merakon is up to 11 no kills.
Pumacougar nods to BlackJack.
Ack says "and there's alot of them"

Carson_D_Carson pages: *hug* Wanna talk?
page carson_D_Carson = Maybe later, thanx. *hugs*
Your message has been sent.

OliverJones agrees. Which brings him to the point that why are there so many
complaints. He has gotten several himself.
Merakon says "Oliver, are you a no_kill?"
Ack says "ok....for once..that really annoys me u know"
OliverJones notes that when you go into the TS, and someone mentions 'black
rose', 5 people ask 'what are the black roses', then they hear 'a bunch of
assholes who kill people randomly'. MOST people have never been killed.
BlackJack says "What r u talking about, Ack?"
Carson_D_Carson pages: Okay. *hugs* Remember, ya got plenty of ears around here
if ya need one, mine included.
Ack says "don't give hioom ideAS Merakon!"
Ack says "in response to u'r whisper"
OliverJones says "The problem is how can we somehow allow the black roses to
recover from this pr nightmare, w/o also restricting them fully."
BlackJack says "OliverJOnes- if you ask Ack and Merakon poltely not to kil you,
they promised Lynx they wouldn't."
Ack says "ugh...spelling typos left and right!!"
Merakon says "Right. We are being lawful evil I guess."
Pumacougar will find a new way to describe the BR's: perhaps: "A loose-knit
group of people who enjoy killing those who don't mind"?
Ack shrugs
OliverJones says "Yes, but there we have the problem that if they didn't mind
they wouldn't complain."
Merakon says "And plundering! Don't forget plundering! We've got a vault full
of stuff you wouldn't believe!"
BlackJack says "Puma- those who dont mind and those who havent told them they
DO mind..."
OliverJones nods.

Lynx unidles. So basically, OJ, any problems with advising people to page BRs
to not kill 'em?
Pumacougar is trying to find a way that doesn't incriminate the BR's, yet
decribes them accurately. He's open to suggestions.
Merakon notes that OliverJones is not on his list...Oliver?
Ack notices he is a Math major...cs minor
BlackJack whispers "Thank you, sir. Only a wiz couldve convinced these two.
Keep up the good work."

You whisper "Quite welcome." to BlackJack.
OliverJones notes that one thing which the Black Roses might do if they want to
see less wizard control over them is cut down on the number of jerkish objects
they stick in people homes.
Merakon says "It's hard to accurately describe a group as rag-tag as us...sorry
I cannot help..."
Ack says "we don't do that..."

Lynx nods.. Littering is !good. It's not an unfixable problem, but...
BlackJack agrees with OJ.
Arion has arrived.

Lynx repurr'los to Arion.
BlackJack says "Yes, you do, Ack. The Enterprise and Warfare have had roses
Arion says "mercy! everything is still haven!"
Merakon says "Ok.We'll minimize litter. But there should be some sign of who
robbed a person. At least we're not anonymous thieves."
Ack says "only 1 or 2 of us....don't stereotype!"
Pumacougar will just see what he can come up with. How about: "A loose-knit
organization of people with various pro-killing philosophies."?
Ack says "better"
Pumacougar nods to Arion politely.
Merakon says "getting better..."
BlackJack says "Well, Ack, the roses can easily be taken as group
announcements. I'd say 'Ack's Black Rose' for a personal statement!"
Arion greets Pumacougar
BlackJack greets Arion.
Pumacougar purrs lightly.
OliverJones thinks that if the black roses agree to accepting pages to not kill
people, and generally get less complaints from the general public say over the
next 2 week period, that they again be given slightly more freedom. This will
allow the group as a WHOLE to overcome the bad stereotyping and witch hunting
attitude. Then maybe indivuals can have complaints looked at, if things get
worse again.

Lynx hmms bemusedly.
Arion says "Hi BlackJack.."

Lynx nods at OJ.
Merakon says "The group as a whole cannot be considered..."
BlackJack says "OJ, only two of the BRs are accepting such pages, I fear."
Arion says "I won't agree...."
BlackJack says "See?"
Pumacougar whispers "You know, I think they're becoming more civil!"

Arion says "I don't like the idea"
Merakon spits at Arion.
Lynx also notes Arion has been singled out.

You whisper "Amazing isn't it." to Pumacougar.
Ack spits at Arion
BlackJack says "I'm sorry, comrades. I must go sleep. Until later-"
Arion says "what do you mean.."singled out"?"
Carson_D_Carson pages: Who are you with currently?

Lynx purrs g'night to Blackjack!
BlackJack grins.
Ack hesitates a wave

page carson_D_Carson = Some of the BlackRoses and some others.
Your message has been sent.

Pumacougar notes that Arion has every right to disagree if he wants. He won't
be forced.

page carson_D_Carson = Hammering out this thing.
Your message has been sent.

Merakon says "later, Blackbo... Blackjack."

OliverJones doesn't like the general hatred towards the blackroses. But the
only way he can see to fix it is for black roses to accept a short period of
public image improvement, and then be able to try to defend their position from
ground which the public is more willing to accept.
Ack says "mercy........"
Merakon isn't looked to be liked.
Ack smiles...fine fine
Arion says "Good..I'll just do what I always did that ok??"
Ack points a paw at Arion......

Lynx shrugs. If we receive complaints, Arion, we're going to answer them.
BlackJack says "NO, Arion. But that's IMHO."
Arion says "Big Deal!"
Ack says "what's IMHO?"
BlackJack whispers "Thanks, oh wizardly one. G'night."
Pumacougar thinks that Arion *should* try to find some way to work things out
with the general populace, though...but he can't be forced.
BlackJack steps north onto the disc and vanishes.
BlackJack has left.
Arion steps north onto the disc and vanishes.
Arion has left.

Lynx reminds you that if we have to answer them and it's Arion, and Arion
doesn't set that person !kill_ok, then another room goes HAVEN. Sorry.
Arion has arrived.

Lynx reminds you that if we have to answer them and it's Arion, and Arion
doesn't set that person !kill_ok, then another room goes HAVEN. Sorry.
OliverJones says "The black roses have valid points, but it is not going to be
accpeted by people at this time. Now I am sure that the roses are worried that
things will stay locked down, and will remain under tight control, and they
should be assured of allowing them more freedoms if they don't get massive
Conty says "In My Humble Opinion. It's a NetNews idiom."
Warfare has arrived.
Ack says "what!!!!!!"
OliverJones says "AND verify that complaints are valid. NO HEARSAY."

You say "IF..."
Arion says "Then nothing has been accomplished..."

You say "IF things work out and we stop getting complaints-- yes, we'll
investigate 'em--"

You say "THEN we can start unhavening various places."

Pumacougar telepaths: "What do you want to see accomplished, Arion?"
You say "It's going to take a while..."
Merakon says "I have a proposal: give the Black Roses special commands to break
locks with pennies so we can plunder more terrain."
Arion says "from what you said it seems the havens are gonna stay"
Warfare says "what's going on? Killing sprees have ground to a halt?"

You say "Both for you to convince others that you're not so bad..."
Arion says "Lies!!"

You say "And for others to accept that."
Ack says "IF we behave...."
OliverJones notes that a lot of complaints may come from people who see
killings, not from being killed. They cannot tell if the other person is
legally involved to be killed.
Arion says "I am that bad!!"

Lynx purr'los to Warfare.
Ack says "well Lynx?"
Pumacougar telepaths: "Arion, why do you wish to be seen as 'bad'?"
Merakon looks at his Not Kill list... Warfare isn't on it.
Ack says "what of that proposal?"
Arion says "This is a fiasco!! All we're getting is the runaround."

Lynx nods to Ack. If things work out and people're able to live with it, we'll
unhaven places.
Ack says "not that"
Warfare chuckles....
Pumacougar telepaths: "Arion, what do you propose be done? Do you have any
Ack says "a command to unlock doors"

Lynx can't do it, sorry. That's MUD modification.
Merakon yawns.
Ack says "random element of doing we can get more into plundering"

Arion says "I propose putting things back the way they were"
Lynx is sure most people would vote it down anyway.
Ack says "about what?"
OliverJones understands the problems that the black roses are having, he's been
screwed by too many administrations. But the additional problem here is that
the public isn't happy. The Black Roses have to agree to give some, with the
knowledge that they will get more back, and will have public outcry reduced.
Pumacougar telepaths: "Do you think everyone will agree to that, Arion? Or at
least a majority?"

You whisper "*snugs* Thanx, OJ." to OliverJones.
Warfare says "It seems to me that you guys are a lot of sore losers... you just
want to harass other people and when you can't you bitch and moan....."
OliverJones says "Of course, if the black roses think that their mission is to
increase public outcry, then they should continue as it is."
Arion says "no I don't...but I never got to vote...why should they??"
Pumacougar scowls at Warfare.
Ack says "ahem....a victim"
Warfare spits at Pumacougar

Conty says "Hoo boy."
Lynx sighs. Take it or leave it.. The chance of getting areas unhavened, or the
current policy stays.
Arion says "Warfare......screw you."
Merakon thinks people are making too much of a big deal about this ... this is
only a game ... stop treating it like a treaty between nations...
Pumacougar is spat at. He doesn't really care.
Warfare says "not quite Ack, and're not my type..."
Merakon isn't either.
Ack says "what are you babbling about Warfare?"
OliverJones says "Other problems here are that the black roses are individuals,
and they have not all engaged in the various things which have been complained
about. But the group as a whole should work at getting the whole thing a little
more out of the eye of the public, so that they as individuals can engage in
what they want."
OliverJones says "Merakon, it's not a game."
Ack says "it isn't?"
OliverJones says "Which is why people complain."
Arion says "Warfare, you pencil neck dweeb.....we aren't even talking to you."
Merakon says "When I find myself in times of trouble... etc ... let it be."
Ack says "you can't be serious!!!"

Ack says "tinymarriages are for real?"
Merakon says "It's a game to me. What do you call it?"
OliverJones says "No, it's not a game. People get very upset."

Warfare says "Ack, I'm not babbling about anything, unlike you psycopath...and
Arion, put a sock in it.... this has as much to do with me as anyone
else...we're sick of you...!"
Lynx nods. Not everyone takes killing lightly, not everyone has the same
opinions you people do.
Pumacougar telepaths: "Arion, the idea here is that we are trying to please as
many people as possible. Unfortunately, it is not possible to please everyone.
You, unfortunately, were one of those who, in this case, got the shorter end of
the stick. However, that is the way compromise must work sometimes. I am
OliverJones says "Physically it's a game, but emotionally things carry through.
If you choose to kill me at a bad time, I might get really pissed. If you chose
some other time, I might just kill fight with you. But it depends."
Arion says "No I didn't..I'll still do what I want"
Ack says "Warfare...if u r not going to contribute to this discussion...why not
leave so we get something done."
Warfare says "Ack I am contributing to this discussion... you feel otherwise
because I DON'T side with you!"
Ack says "wrong"
Pumacougar looks at Warfare. He never thought he'd see anyone as unreasonable
as a BR. Now he's learned that the BR's can be very reasonable--more so than
certain others.
Merakon says "It's not my problem people can't handle a game... I think I
should be able to play the game the way I want.